MORMONs, LDS was Brigham YOUNG close to describing the curse of cain having a "FlatNOSE?
Additional Details
1 week ago
the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.
Remarks by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Tabernacle,
Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.
Reported by G. D. Watt.
Remarks by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Tabernacle,
Great Salt Lake City, October 9, 1859.
Reported by G. D. Watt.
1 week ago
compare this to a verse in leviticus
Lev. 21: 18
18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
Lev. 21: 18
18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,
1 week ago
was not the mark of God in the forehead?
1 week ago
the object of asking this question is compare the term flat nose in the old testament verse with what Brigham Young might have believed.
the nation of Israel from the days of Adam and Eve were commanded not to join with the sons of cain
now i must admit this topic has been commented on by many men who seem to be MORE prestigious than i. but with this little bit of history and study, i have come to learn more precisely what the controversy is all about. I dont think every comment is totally true.
what i do know is that it took a revelation from God that is alleged by the first presidency and the quorum of 12 in order to change an old restriction on blacks receiving the priesthood. but i believe it was the sons of ham that became black skinned, and the children of lamen and lemuel who are also described as receiving dark skins. WHY? because the children set themselves to make covenants with satan , the dark skin was made to distinguish between the children of Adam and the those that follow after the secret combinations of satan who first gave them to Cain.
Even the Israelites were taught to reject these clans of people. but it takes faith and repentance to prove someone to God, irregardless of skin color. there is a canon verse that defines this.
http://cid-fff19b48ee821aa4.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/REceiveNotofHerPlaguesDC5842-1.jpg
Now there were indeed better answers, but i gave up on the yahoo community to choose the best answer along time ago! just as i condemn yahoo ToS and wish to God I could Sue them for slander and unrighteousdominion, and hiring lawyers that make rules so ambiguous that only the athiests and unbelievers would persecute the words i have spoken.
Anyway! here are some of the better answers given. ( i was looking for sholarly answers from members that might know more than i know because they grew up in the church)
7of9 replied:
the nation of Israel from the days of Adam and Eve were commanded not to join with the sons of cain
Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
that's out of leviticus - what exactly are you asking? answered by Phrog.
I reply: well, i wouldnt have chosen your answer unless i knew it was supposed to be funny or that everyone else was plain rude. i was trying to correlate the term flat nose with a term that brigham young spoke about in the journal of discourses. where it is said that Brigham Young used the term flat nose in conjuction with the topic of the curse of Cain and mark of God.
http://cid-fff19b48ee821aa4.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/recentpublicfolder/MarkofCainSkinofdarkness.txtI reply: well, i wouldnt have chosen your answer unless i knew it was supposed to be funny or that everyone else was plain rude. i was trying to correlate the term flat nose with a term that brigham young spoke about in the journal of discourses. where it is said that Brigham Young used the term flat nose in conjuction with the topic of the curse of Cain and mark of God.
now i must admit this topic has been commented on by many men who seem to be MORE prestigious than i. but with this little bit of history and study, i have come to learn more precisely what the controversy is all about. I dont think every comment is totally true.
what i do know is that it took a revelation from God that is alleged by the first presidency and the quorum of 12 in order to change an old restriction on blacks receiving the priesthood. but i believe it was the sons of ham that became black skinned, and the children of lamen and lemuel who are also described as receiving dark skins. WHY? because the children set themselves to make covenants with satan , the dark skin was made to distinguish between the children of Adam and the those that follow after the secret combinations of satan who first gave them to Cain.
Even the Israelites were taught to reject these clans of people. but it takes faith and repentance to prove someone to God, irregardless of skin color. there is a canon verse that defines this.
http://cid-fff19b48ee821aa4.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/REceiveNotofHerPlaguesDC5842-1.jpg
Now there were indeed better answers, but i gave up on the yahoo community to choose the best answer along time ago! just as i condemn yahoo ToS and wish to God I could Sue them for slander and unrighteousdominion, and hiring lawyers that make rules so ambiguous that only the athiests and unbelievers would persecute the words i have spoken.
Anyway! here are some of the better answers given. ( i was looking for sholarly answers from members that might know more than i know because they grew up in the church)
7of9 replied:
(1831 - 1844) JOSEPH SMITH Discoverer of the Golden plates
First Prophet and President and Founder of the Mormon Church:
"Had I anything to do with the ***** , I would confine them by strict law to their own species and put them on a national equalization.''
(1848 - 1877) BRIGHAM YOUNG 2nd Prophet and President
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable, sad, low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(1877 - 1887) JOHN TAYLOR 3rd Prophet and President
"...after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation a upon a the earth as well as God;.. "
(1901 - 1918) JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH 10th Prophet and President
"I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the *****. "Darkies" are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church."
"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race.
"... and they have been 'despised among all people.' This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith ..."
Gordon Hinckley on Why it took so long to overcome racism
in the LDS church-- on You Yube
First Prophet and President and Founder of the Mormon Church:
"Had I anything to do with the ***** , I would confine them by strict law to their own species and put them on a national equalization.''
(1848 - 1877) BRIGHAM YOUNG 2nd Prophet and President
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable, sad, low in their habits, wild, and seemingly without the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so."
(1877 - 1887) JOHN TAYLOR 3rd Prophet and President
"...after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Ham's wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representation a upon a the earth as well as God;.. "
(1901 - 1918) JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH 10th Prophet and President
"I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the *****. "Darkies" are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church."
"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race.
"... and they have been 'despised among all people.' This doctrine did not originate with President Brigham Young but was taught by the Prophet Joseph Smith ..."
Gordon Hinckley on Why it took so long to overcome racism
in the LDS church-- on You Yube
Source(s):
The prophets quotes see any flatnose quotes?
I reply: this isnt about racism, its about doctrinal interpretation, its about brigham young using the term Flat NOSE, and yes. it is recorded that he used it. the quotes i have are from infobase data sources. and you (7of9) seemed to quote the same thing where the flat nose quote was found. If the church has deleted this same remark, i would have to look into WHY? it was deleted from historical accounts or why it was preserved in the infobase.
i value your experience and your input as a believer. i hope we can be freinds online, only, i just read your profile because you answered my question about the Flat nose some time back.
i am one of many witnesses of jesus christ, so i call myself a believer. but ONE reason i do not go to church is the fact that I know witch craft(s) exist in every church. the last time i went to an lds church I was poisoned. the last time i went to a baptist church i was poisoned 3 different times as a visitor and stalked by people dressed in black.
I called it an abomination. the poison intoxicated my mind worse than any other illegal drug could have, in my opinion. the formula was so intense I felt like i was breathing fire.
Do you still practice Wicca? do you know what im talking about? Anyway, i cant attend any church. there was a time when I couldnt go anywhere without being stalked by hunters. i truly believe i have been pursued by assasins in a couple situations. i even woke up more than a dozen times as someone tried to inject a needle in my arm, or under my chin, or even in my finger. NOt in the u.s. alone but in England and Israel also.
truth seeker replied:The difference that people see in the Mormon church from just regular racists remarks made by a lot of people during those times is simply that they directly correlated their racism in with their religion. Many points were made directly that discriminated against african americans and was very evident in the teachings of the Mormon church's early leaders. They directly proclaimed doctrine that said the black skin was a curse of cain and those cannot receive the blessings of a priesthood gift. For the current Mormons to only associate the sayings as the present times racist behavior among most everyone and not to point out the fact that those racist people put its hate into the root of the churches teachings are fooling themselves. It is simply that the early Mormon leaders deliberately fed their hate and prejudice into the foundation of the church is why the LDS religion is seen as a racist religion.
i reply: i think truthseeker is biased agains seeking out the truth, my studies of historical mormonism is rather the opposite. with mormon doctrine it was not about racisim. Joseph Smith lived in a day when the U.S. constitution was a document of the spirit of God. it was legal to have slaves. but thats besides the point. both in the bible and the book of mormon, it was a commandment of God through moses to NOT mix races and religion. even though Moses himself took an ethiopian woman for a second wife. it is explained more correctly in the pearl of great price where cain made a covenant with satan and then slew Abel. to get gain and by making a covenant with satan Cain became master mayhan.
this is the foundation of racisism. it is very much a biblical doctrine.
beachlady:
gman31500: The fact that LDS leader were deeply and completely racist is beyond debate. Of course they were.
Why not admit that early LDS leaders were wingnuts, racists bigots that may have been inspired in other things, but represented the worst of their time and culture on race? Of course, once you do, you can no longer read anything they wrote with confidence which is a healthy place to be.
i reply: I think it is truly debateable, whether they were racist or following the commands of the lord as written in the scriptures.
ebs187:What a strange thing to say.
i reply: the history of the church, Lds, fundamental, evangelical, catholic baptist, etc et all is strange on many levels. but in every church, their history if obviously true to their own traditions and understand and brainwashing and indoctrination.
captain galactic:
I reply: this isnt about racism, its about doctrinal interpretation, its about brigham young using the term Flat NOSE, and yes. it is recorded that he used it. the quotes i have are from infobase data sources. and you (7of9) seemed to quote the same thing where the flat nose quote was found. If the church has deleted this same remark, i would have to look into WHY? it was deleted from historical accounts or why it was preserved in the infobase.
i value your experience and your input as a believer. i hope we can be freinds online, only, i just read your profile because you answered my question about the Flat nose some time back.
i am one of many witnesses of jesus christ, so i call myself a believer. but ONE reason i do not go to church is the fact that I know witch craft(s) exist in every church. the last time i went to an lds church I was poisoned. the last time i went to a baptist church i was poisoned 3 different times as a visitor and stalked by people dressed in black.
I called it an abomination. the poison intoxicated my mind worse than any other illegal drug could have, in my opinion. the formula was so intense I felt like i was breathing fire.
Do you still practice Wicca? do you know what im talking about? Anyway, i cant attend any church. there was a time when I couldnt go anywhere without being stalked by hunters. i truly believe i have been pursued by assasins in a couple situations. i even woke up more than a dozen times as someone tried to inject a needle in my arm, or under my chin, or even in my finger. NOt in the u.s. alone but in England and Israel also.
truth seeker replied:The difference that people see in the Mormon church from just regular racists remarks made by a lot of people during those times is simply that they directly correlated their racism in with their religion. Many points were made directly that discriminated against african americans and was very evident in the teachings of the Mormon church's early leaders. They directly proclaimed doctrine that said the black skin was a curse of cain and those cannot receive the blessings of a priesthood gift. For the current Mormons to only associate the sayings as the present times racist behavior among most everyone and not to point out the fact that those racist people put its hate into the root of the churches teachings are fooling themselves. It is simply that the early Mormon leaders deliberately fed their hate and prejudice into the foundation of the church is why the LDS religion is seen as a racist religion.
i reply: i think truthseeker is biased agains seeking out the truth, my studies of historical mormonism is rather the opposite. with mormon doctrine it was not about racisim. Joseph Smith lived in a day when the U.S. constitution was a document of the spirit of God. it was legal to have slaves. but thats besides the point. both in the bible and the book of mormon, it was a commandment of God through moses to NOT mix races and religion. even though Moses himself took an ethiopian woman for a second wife. it is explained more correctly in the pearl of great price where cain made a covenant with satan and then slew Abel. to get gain and by making a covenant with satan Cain became master mayhan.
- • • •49 For aLamech having entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan; and Irad, the son of Enoch, having known their secret, began to reveal it unto the sons of Adam;
this is the foundation of racisism. it is very much a biblical doctrine.
beachlady:
Brigham and Others were racist and suppost to be speaking for the Lord?? Oh boy, DID they know that people were writing down their speeches. You'd swear they did NOT!!
HERES the quote...
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Can might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, page 290).
HERES the quote...
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Can might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, page 290).
ex mormon and you wonder why??
i reply: all churches are / were guilty of this! up until the 1970's and even still today. Although the lds church is making it look like racisism and repentance are an effort together. i cant deny my testimony and i dont deny mormon doctrine because i believe it, but its like what jesus said when he said: do what they say NOT what they do! believe in what is taught that is the word of God but dont practice sins that they might practice. secret combinations exist in the church and in every church. Even at yahoo.
i reply: all churches are / were guilty of this! up until the 1970's and even still today. Although the lds church is making it look like racisism and repentance are an effort together. i cant deny my testimony and i dont deny mormon doctrine because i believe it, but its like what jesus said when he said: do what they say NOT what they do! believe in what is taught that is the word of God but dont practice sins that they might practice. secret combinations exist in the church and in every church. Even at yahoo.
gman31500: The fact that LDS leader were deeply and completely racist is beyond debate. Of course they were.
Why not admit that early LDS leaders were wingnuts, racists bigots that may have been inspired in other things, but represented the worst of their time and culture on race? Of course, once you do, you can no longer read anything they wrote with confidence which is a healthy place to be.
i reply: I think it is truly debateable, whether they were racist or following the commands of the lord as written in the scriptures.
ebs187:What a strange thing to say.
i reply: the history of the church, Lds, fundamental, evangelical, catholic baptist, etc et all is strange on many levels. but in every church, their history if obviously true to their own traditions and understand and brainwashing and indoctrination.
captain galactic:
eh, what?
my brother didn't have one until last week when I slammed a door in his face.
i reply: ok slight humor on a very touchy subject.
there were 4 other answers, that i just blocked out, with a thumbs down and one of them was just an answer. Yes this is a touchy subject.
God and Jesus appear to a 14 year old boy, because he couldnt decide or know which church to join. After that this boy starts a church because of revelations and OTHER odd things that most christian dont even know exist. The christian church cries racism and false prophet. even ex members claim that racism is one reason they dont attend anymore. I think i will always believe in most mormon doctrine, as long as it is NOT overturned by current leadership. I question current leadership and correct inspiration when things are overturned. I question president Bensen in at least one teaching at Gen Conf, but when i repented and sustained him in my own solemn assembly i not only received blessings but the one great vision of the sun of righteousness.
its a hard thing to speak against prophets, if they are true. its easy to speak against them if a person thinks they are false teachers. but if a person judges incorrectly the blessings are lost, until repentance is confirmed. The whole history of religion has been about rejecting false doctrines and others crying "foul". King james rebelled against the POPE, because of this and we have his alternate translation. other christians rebel against the kjv and create their own translation. to make it seem more understandable. but under whose understanding?
even the newest versions are different than the older version and plain doctrines are changed to veiw current veiw points.
when it comes to religious racism. IT IS a biblical fundamental word of God to reject people who make covenants with satan from being involved in church and all its blessings. it is NOT wrong to conclude that the black skin of Cains children was a curse ! so that the children of Adam would not mix their seed with them and become a people that God ultimately had to destroy. one prophet came to a conclusion that it was the egyptians that the curse of cain fell upon. whatever the truth is, the bible says the curse was continued through the flood through the sons of ham who married Egyptus. if i remember correctly. the book of mormon declares the same kind of curse was given to the children of lamen and lemual, thus their skins were darkened. but now today, the priesthood is given to "ALL worthy Men" because it has been proven that skin color does mean people will not mix with cains seed or make secret combination with satan.
My God! they still worship idols in the bohemian grove! in californian and around the world. They mock human sacrifice there too!, they mock human sacrifice at the burning man festival.
the real human sacrifices are being done in the mountains.
my brother didn't have one until last week when I slammed a door in his face.
i reply: ok slight humor on a very touchy subject.
there were 4 other answers, that i just blocked out, with a thumbs down and one of them was just an answer. Yes this is a touchy subject.
God and Jesus appear to a 14 year old boy, because he couldnt decide or know which church to join. After that this boy starts a church because of revelations and OTHER odd things that most christian dont even know exist. The christian church cries racism and false prophet. even ex members claim that racism is one reason they dont attend anymore. I think i will always believe in most mormon doctrine, as long as it is NOT overturned by current leadership. I question current leadership and correct inspiration when things are overturned. I question president Bensen in at least one teaching at Gen Conf, but when i repented and sustained him in my own solemn assembly i not only received blessings but the one great vision of the sun of righteousness.
its a hard thing to speak against prophets, if they are true. its easy to speak against them if a person thinks they are false teachers. but if a person judges incorrectly the blessings are lost, until repentance is confirmed. The whole history of religion has been about rejecting false doctrines and others crying "foul". King james rebelled against the POPE, because of this and we have his alternate translation. other christians rebel against the kjv and create their own translation. to make it seem more understandable. but under whose understanding?
even the newest versions are different than the older version and plain doctrines are changed to veiw current veiw points.
when it comes to religious racism. IT IS a biblical fundamental word of God to reject people who make covenants with satan from being involved in church and all its blessings. it is NOT wrong to conclude that the black skin of Cains children was a curse ! so that the children of Adam would not mix their seed with them and become a people that God ultimately had to destroy. one prophet came to a conclusion that it was the egyptians that the curse of cain fell upon. whatever the truth is, the bible says the curse was continued through the flood through the sons of ham who married Egyptus. if i remember correctly. the book of mormon declares the same kind of curse was given to the children of lamen and lemual, thus their skins were darkened. but now today, the priesthood is given to "ALL worthy Men" because it has been proven that skin color does mean people will not mix with cains seed or make secret combination with satan.
My God! they still worship idols in the bohemian grove! in californian and around the world. They mock human sacrifice there too!, they mock human sacrifice at the burning man festival.
the real human sacrifices are being done in the mountains.
No comments:
Post a Comment